Curt Harlow [00:00:00]:
Hello, my friend, and welcome to the Bible Study podcast. I'm joined, as always, by the incredible frontal love of everything theological at Bayside Church, Dena Davidson. How you doing, Dena?
Dena Davidson [00:00:12]:
I'm good. Great.
Curt Harlow [00:00:13]:
Just got back from summer vacation camp with your family.
Dena Davidson [00:00:16]:
That was actually awful. We all got the stomach flu. So I'm really happy to be back on the Bible study.
Wesley Towne [00:00:21]:
Not recently, right?
Dena Davidson [00:00:22]:
No, we're good.
Wesley Towne [00:00:23]:
Okay. Okay. I'm just protecting myself.
Curt Harlow [00:00:25]:
Some of my best Bible study happens when I'm with a flu and I'm crying out to God.
Dena Davidson [00:00:30]:
So it was so great coming off the imprecatory psalms. I mean, I was raining down curses on the family members that brought it up.
Curt Harlow [00:00:36]:
Go look at those past podcasts on these imprecatory psalms. And we're joined with the best pastor reaching out to UC Davis, in my opinion, in the whole country, which is Wesley Towne. Hey, Wesley. How you doing, my friend?
Wesley Towne [00:00:50]:
Doing great. Great to be here with you.
Curt Harlow [00:00:52]:
Yes.
Wesley Towne [00:00:53]:
I think it's my second round.
Curt Harlow [00:00:55]:
Have you. We only had you on twice.
Wesley Towne [00:00:57]:
Yeah, I've only twice. Been busy many times and had to say no.
Curt Harlow [00:01:00]:
But someone, someone go look it back at the old past episodes. I think there's at least three. All right, we're gonna jump right in here. We're in the book of Ephesians. Not supposed to have a favorite epistle, which is just a fancy word for letter, but I do have a favorite epistle. I like this one and I like it because it lays the foundation of the story of salvation. It extremely well in the first three chapters, and then it tells us how we should respond to that in the most practical and still works 2000 years later ways in the last three chapters. So what we're doing in these first three chapters is we're trying to get this idea.
Curt Harlow [00:01:36]:
When Paul wants to speak foundational truth into the Ephesians, where does he start and what does he say? We're going to jump in at verse 15. And then when we kind of get in the round robin Geist, I want you to think about adding some more context to this because I definitely think you have to get 1 through 14 to understand why he moves there in 15. But we'll wait till we discuss to kind of come up with why 1 through 14 is important in this week's discussion on verses 15 to the end of the chapter. By the way, take out your Bible if you're studying along with us. Unless you're driving. If you're driving, bike, you know, battery powered motorcycle, whatever. Don't take out Your Bible, but otherwise do. Okay, here we go.
Curt Harlow [00:02:24]:
Verse 15. For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and your love for all of God's people, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation so that you may know him better. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, and incomparably great power for us who believe that power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at the right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked not only in the present age, but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the Church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. All right, let's start this way. Paul says. He starts the whole thing, and he says, for this reason, okay, before we move on to anything else, what is the reason that gets him to present this content? So whenever we see therefore, or because I think we go, what's the therefore? Therefore.
Curt Harlow [00:03:57]:
So he says, for this reason, Dena, we'll start with you. What's the reason for everything he's saying today?
Dena Davidson [00:04:03]:
Yeah, well, we have a very beautiful passage which talks about us being chosen, predestined, and then sealed with the Holy Spirit. And so when he says, for this reason, he's talking about, hey, broad, broad strokes. This is the story of your salv. This is the salvation story. The story of your salvation, particularly. And so for this reason, he goes on and he says, I thank my God for the faith that you have, which I think is just beautiful. This is. We know from Acts, the story of the church in Ephesus is one where it's something that's different.
Dena Davidson [00:04:39]:
Something different happens in Ephesus. For Paul, it was a place that he stopped at longer. And so he had this opportunity to get to know the church in Ephesus. So when he writes, ever since I heard about your faith, I've not stopped giving thanks for you. These are people that he loves dearly with all of his heart. And so I think the reason why is because he's been able to see the working out of salvation that he describes in the previous verses.
Curt Harlow [00:05:06]:
Yeah, something different did happen. I always say Ephesus is rated PG13 for violence and intense scenes, maybe flashing lights because the mob scene in the Book of Acts is so dramatic. Wes, what would you add to that? Why do. What is the reason for the. For this reason?
Wesley Towne [00:05:23]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, just on a Bible study level, therefore is an inferential conjunction, which means it's a summary statement.
Curt Harlow [00:05:31]:
Right.
Wesley Towne [00:05:32]:
So Paul is, is making a summary. But I think sometimes we look at the epistles, the letters as really technical theological letters. Ephesians is a sermon, pastoral letter. Paul is, Paul is speaking to them in their moment. What they're facing, what they're going through, the situations and challenges that the church is facing as followers of Jesus. And I think what's interesting, in verses 3 through 14, Paul talks to the Ephesians about God. And in verses 15 through 23, Paul talks to God about the Ephesians. So he highlights all of these incredible blessings that they have in Jesus.
Wesley Towne [00:06:16]:
They've been chosen, like you said, they've been predestined, they've been made heirs. The spirit of God has sealed them, Jesus has forgiven them, they've been redeemed. And out of the overflow of that, he gives a summary thought, now he starts praying for them. And I think that's a connection. He's pastoring the church, he's saying, I want you to know how blessed you are. And then he's talking to God. I want God, you to help them to know you more. So I think that there's a lot of interplay, there's a lot of connection here around understanding God and teaching.
Wesley Towne [00:06:52]:
And now it's understanding God in prayer form.
Curt Harlow [00:06:55]:
Yeah. Well, I would simply put it in two word phrase, glorious grace. Or you could choose the other two word phrase that he uses in the first half of the chapter, which is lavish grace, which both are just over the top. You don't really need an adjective in front of grace. Grace itself is so, so powerful and amazing and beautiful. But you could see Paul walking around whatever prison they've got him in in Rome. There's some guy is scribing as fast as he can and he. It's a run on sentence here because he cannot stop himself.
Curt Harlow [00:07:27]:
It's the glorious grace, it's the lavish grace that he adopted you, that you were heirs, that you were chosen and he just, he can't stop himself. So I think for this reason, the reason is glorious grace. And here's where I think this is really important to just agree with both of you and Add on, you can't get anything else. Paul says, not just in this letter, but in any letter, until you set the foundation of glorious grace. He goes from verse three, like you said, all the way to 14. And he makes two big points that are really the same point. God has lavished you in grace, and God has chosen you before you chose him. He's lavished you with grace and he's chosen you.
Curt Harlow [00:08:14]:
He's lavished you with grace and he's chosen you. Now why are they related? Because God choosing us is an act of grace. It's lavish grace. In fact, the Roman father, when a baby was born, would say, ah, now we're not keeping that baby, or we are keeping this baby. And so when he says this to him, hear this with your Roman ears. When he says it in the first half of the chapter, you have been adopted. What he's saying is, you're not exposed, you're not abandoned, but you've been deliberately adopted. The other thing the Roman father would do on his deathbed, he'd say, oldest son, you do get my inheritance.
Curt Harlow [00:08:50]:
Or he would say, and he would have to say both, you don't get my inheritance. And here's why. I'm giving it to that kid over there who's not even my son, but acted more like a son than you. So Paul, hear it with these ears, says, you're not abandoned, you're adopted. And I've already made a decision, you get the inheritance. So good, that's lavish grace. So, and here's what I did on Sunday, I just, I took. Cause it's a really clunky run on sentence.
Curt Harlow [00:09:19]:
Go back and read the whole thing and watch the podcast, but if you just abbreviate it, it says, he blessed you with every blessing. He chose you. He made you blameless, he adopted you. He freely gave you glorious grace. He provided redemption for you, he won forgiveness for you. He lavished grace on you. He revealed his will. For for you, he marked you as his own.
Curt Harlow [00:09:37]:
He sealed you with the Holy Spirit, you brought that abdina, he guaranteed an inheritance for you. And then twice he says that whole list, he did this because it brought him great joy.
Dena Davidson [00:09:48]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:09:49]:
When you set the foundation of God's grace in your life, God laughs out loud with pleasure. God goes, he gets it. He gets grace.
Wesley Towne [00:10:00]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:10:01]:
So I think that's the four. But then to your point, Wesley, he goes on here and I do think he's. He's prayer ching.
Dena Davidson [00:10:09]:
Prayer preaching.
Curt Harlow [00:10:10]:
I think he's prayer Ching because he doesn't really say he's writing down his prayer for sure. Yeah. He doesn't, he doesn't say and now I pray for you Ephesians. Like he does that in other places where he says I pray for you, he kind of slips into prayer. And he definitely though has, there's exhortation or you see what he's calling upon God for them as very instructive to us. So make a comment on this, Wes. What in the world is Paul praying that God would. If the Ephesians get God's grace, then what does he want them to know or do about that in the second half?
Wesley Towne [00:10:51]:
Two things. First in verses 15 and 16. Well, I find to be fascinating. I mean a lot of people think of Paul as like this dry theologian, right? But Paul was a, like a deep hearted pastor. Like he loved the people. The church at Ephesus at This point between 68 and 62 AD had a lot of problems. There was disunity between Jews and Gentiles in the church. There was a lack of spiritual maturity.
Wesley Towne [00:11:19]:
And that's why Paul is writing this letter. But Paul doesn't come down on them. He's not like, oh, you guys are doing terrible. Not like the Ephesians church or I mean the church at Corinth. Pardon me. Paul starts with encouragement. I think there's something so valuable about leadership when you read this. Sometimes we're like, oh, it's so messy.
Wesley Towne [00:11:44]:
Everybody's so messy on this matter.
Curt Harlow [00:11:46]:
I have no praise for you. As it says in the Corinthians, yes.
Wesley Towne [00:11:49]:
I'm going to come down on them. But Paul often starts with encouragement. That's what he does here in verses 15 and 16. That's what he does when he calls them faithful in Christ Jesus. In verse 1, he calls them holy, set apart, you guys are saints in verse one. So I just love that, that Paul is encouraging them before he gets into the realities of what they need to do. Practice wise as followers of Jesus to, you know, deal and find solutions spiritually for their problems. But I think that the heart of this entire section, just to add on to something you said, verses 3 through 14 are one long sentence.
Wesley Towne [00:12:31]:
The entire book revolves around eight lengthy sentences. So verses 15 through 23 are another one of those long sentences.
Curt Harlow [00:12:40]:
Right?
Wesley Towne [00:12:41]:
And I think that verse 17 is the theme of the entire section where he says, I keep on asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation. So that here's the purpose, you may know him better, right? And the term Know, there is, is an interesting term in the original language, epignosis, which comes from where we, you know, Gnosticism. Knowledge is, is a root, you know, an idea that came out of that. It means a couple things. First, it means accurate knowledge. Like we're getting an accurate knowledge of God in verse in chapters one through three of the book of Ephesians. It's theology, right? And then the second part of that term is it's often used in the context of relational personal knowledge. So sometimes when we're studying the Bible, we're like, oh, yeah, I want to be the best theologian.
Wesley Towne [00:13:35]:
I want to know all the Greek and Hebrew words. I want to understand the syntax and context and history and theology. But God really wants us to know him, not just know about him. And that's Paul's prayer that they would know God. There was a deepening knowledge of God. And what I find fascinating about this is so often we look at solving people's problems spiritually as giving them directives, right? Like, here's, here's the practice for this problem. Paul doesn't start there. He starts with, look at this entire chapter.
Wesley Towne [00:14:14]:
I want you to know how blessed you are through the Trinity in salvation. And I want you to know God deeper. And I think about my life, Kurt. My life didn't change through a bunch of, like, practices. First and foremost, it changed through knowing God. And the more that I've known God in relationship, the more that my heart has postured toward transformation and change. And so I think that that is what Paul is doing here. And we can get into like, exactly what he prays about knowing God.
Wesley Towne [00:14:48]:
But.
Curt Harlow [00:14:48]:
Oh, we will a second. But let's, let's stop where you're at right now because I think it's very profound. He's very deliberately starting with this giant run on sentence that is about lavish grace. Here's how you've been blessed in every way. And one of my contentions is we do not set the foundation of our journey with God correctly. Most of us, if we were to ask, what is the engine of holiness? What makes me do the right thing and say no to the wrong thing? We secretly actually believe that it is some form of willpower and that if we just coach ourselves up and memorize more and get around the right people and go to bed and eat something green, if we just coach ourselves up, we will make strides. And I think also we bring this to church. So we come into church and it's like we're building this house and one week we're doing finished work on the interior, but we haven't even laid the foundation.
Curt Harlow [00:15:47]:
And the next week we're doing insulation, but the walls are not ready to receive it. And the next week we're working on the roof, but it's dangerous, and we've never laid the Foundation. For 14 verses, he sang, get grace. Get grace. Understand it. For the grace of God has appeared to all people, and it teaches us to say no to ungodliness even in this present age. That's Titus 2, 11, 12. Then he says, for he says, as you are getting grace, I see your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you've not stopped giving thanks and remembering you're my praise.
Curt Harlow [00:16:24]:
I keep asking God, and here's exactly what you said. He goes, I see your faith. I see you getting grace. So now that you're growing in grace, don't stop.
Wesley Towne [00:16:34]:
Yeah, that's.
Curt Harlow [00:16:35]:
Do not stop. And so even, even those of us been in the church for a long time, we will have that epiphany of grace. And instead of using that epiphany of grace to go on and have greater gnosis personally who God is, we'll stop and go. It's. It's like, you know, if you've ever had someone in your life like this, and I've had several, they have a profound illness. There's a great pharmaceutical help for them. They take the medicine, and after a while they go, I feel great. In fact, I think I'm over this.
Curt Harlow [00:17:11]:
I think I did this. I think I've overcome this. And they stop taking the medicine, and they immediately get sick again. And then they wonder why. And it's like, Paul's going, you know, you survived all those riots and the tribulation and trauma of the birth of this church by understanding the grace of God. Now, as you're going into some conflicts with each other, please, as you grow, keep growing, take the medicine of grace. And he prays that into him, he's like, find out who the Father is. More.
Curt Harlow [00:17:46]:
Don't. Don't do any other practice except for growing in your knowledge of the Father, which is another way of saying you're growing in grace. So true.
Dena Davidson [00:17:55]:
I have a question about speaking trinitarian knowledge and growing in knowledge. Because as I was reading this, I was thinking, all right, sometimes we just, like, assume the Trinity. But sometimes when I read this, I'm like, oh, I think, does this contradict the Trinity? And I think, like an on the face reading of it, we gotta address this question. So it says this. I keep asking that The God of our Lord Jesus Christ. So just on the face, language. How can Jesus have a God and yet be God? So help us understand. Because I think those of us familiar with theological language brush right past that.
Dena Davidson [00:18:39]:
Oh, we know what that means.
Curt Harlow [00:18:40]:
Well, clearly you've disproven the Trinity right there, obviously. Good job, Dena.
Dena Davidson [00:18:43]:
But I would say that'll be the.
Curt Harlow [00:18:45]:
End of this episode of.
Dena Davidson [00:18:46]:
No, yeah, that'll be the end of this podcast if we're denying the Trinity. Every other, every cult of Christianity and every other world religion denies the deity of Jesus Christ. And by deity, I mean the full deity that he is equal to the Father. So help us, help us unpack this language. How can Jesus have a God? What are we supposed to make of this? Who wants to take that on?
Wesley Towne [00:19:13]:
I'll take it. Take it to me. That's relational language. We know from scripture that every person in the Trinity is called God, every single one, and that there is one God. God is three persons, one essence, or you could say one being. And what's interesting in chapter one is that you see that each person in the Trinity has different roles or primary functions when it relates to us or salvation. So each of them has a different role, but they're all working in unison for the same purpose. And so when I read that part, I'm not it.
Wesley Towne [00:19:53]:
It doesn't bother me or make me question the reality of the nature of God, because I think that's what we're really referring to when we say the Trinity, that God is try a triune being. The nature of God is obviously part of it is known and part of it's a mystery, like he's God. There's a depth of God that we can understand and there's a depth of God that we will always be understanding. But to me, that is relationship. That is that the Father has a relationship with the Son. And I think that's beautiful. It enhances the Trinity.
Dena Davidson [00:20:30]:
To me, that's really good. I also think that anytime you start to speak about God, a being who is so much greater than we can understand and fathom language will be a challenge. And so there is an essence. If we get caught up in the just mere language of God, trying to communicate who he is, and we don't pay attention to the whole revelation, we're going to come up with some heresies as has happened over and over and over again. I can just see, like I can see someone on TikTok reading this verse. See, Jesus can't be God because Jesus has a God. It's God the Father. So, Christians, what are you talking about? And that's TikTok theology.
Dena Davidson [00:21:06]:
It's not nuanced theology. It's not taking all of what God says about himself and his triune nature. And even if we just go down, let's just think about this. In verse 20, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, that is the type of authority that only God has. And so if you just go down a few verses, you're like, okay, so this division that we're trying to create between God the Father and God the Son, just that division is not possible. Just a few verses later. You got to read all of Scripture.
Curt Harlow [00:21:49]:
When you're pulling out theology, I answer two ways. First of all, we are incredibly litigious and arrogant. So when we look at how Paul is orating this to a scribe, trying to. His real goal here is to not solve the debate between predestination, Calvinism, Arminianism. It's not his goal. His goal is to get us to understand lavish grace leads to a wise, powerful, undeserved revelation of God himself. So us picking this apart in that way, let's take this word, this phrase is not the intention. Like people say, I teach verse by verse.
Curt Harlow [00:22:32]:
I'm like, that's great. How about idea by idea? Yeah, that's even better. So, first of all, we're over litigious, especially Greek. There is no. There is no punctuation here. And there is a wide variety of words Paul can choose from much wider than what we choose from. You know, the whole Eskimos have 11 words for snow or whatever. That's a Greek sort of idea, too.
Curt Harlow [00:22:55]:
So litigious. Don't be over litigious. Don't be over analytical, number one. Number two, Jesus. Why can't God have a God and there be only one God? You know what the sign of a cult is when they can explain God in a sentence.
Dena Davidson [00:23:10]:
Yep.
Curt Harlow [00:23:11]:
And I think you both were saying a form of that.
Dena Davidson [00:23:13]:
Exactly.
Curt Harlow [00:23:14]:
Also contextually. I love what you said. This is relational. Absolutely. And I think it's also contextually Jesus leaving heaven. Philippians 2 explains this. So Jesus is fully deity. He never becomes less than deity.
Curt Harlow [00:23:31]:
But Philippians 2 says he did not think that grasping at heaven, that's the Greek it says, was something he ought to do. Instead, he came to earth and became a servant. But not just any ordinary servant. But a servant unto death. So in the time that Jesus gave up heaven, there was a denial in Jesus of his fully deity order. Cause he says, I don't say it unless the Father tells me to say it. I don't do it unless the Father tells me to do it. I do.
Curt Harlow [00:23:58]:
If you see my actions, you've seen what the Father would do. So here he's saying, Jesus submitted to the Father to die for us and showed us not only is he the way, provides the way, he shows us the way of having that intimate relationship with the Father. So in that relational sense, in his mission on earth, the Father was his God deliberately. So that's part of the sacrifice. Part of the sacrifice is that Jesus did the miracles out of faith in the Father, not out of his own deity, which could have easily done so. Of course, the Father is his God in the sense that he came to earth in obedience, that the Father gave his one and only begotten Son, that whoever shall believe in him would have eternal life. And if you don't see that, if you get too. You might want to think maybe I'm being a little too litigious and trying to find problems that aren't actually there.
Dena Davidson [00:24:58]:
Yeah.
Wesley Towne [00:24:58]:
Can I add one more thing? Since this is a Bible study podcast?
Curt Harlow [00:25:01]:
Absolutely.
Wesley Towne [00:25:02]:
I think it's so important. Like, if you're listening right now, this is a great example of a danger that we can practice when reading the Bible or when people bring up stuff like that. A text without context is a pretext for anything you want to make it.
Dena Davidson [00:25:20]:
And you should say that again.
Wesley Towne [00:25:22]:
A text without context is a pretext for anything you want to make it. Not only is it important to look at, like the paragraph, like, what is Paul saying here about God and then Jesus having power and dominion over everything, which only God can have, brilliantly adding that thought. But context has so many layers. It's the entire book. It's everything the New Testament says about each person in the Trinity. It's everything the entire Bible says about each person in the Trinity. There are so many layers of context that sometimes we get focused on an isolated verse and get tripped up. And then we don't realize, wait a minute, Titus chapter three says that Jesus is God.
Wesley Towne [00:26:05]:
You know, John chapter one in multiple ways says that Jesus is God. Colossians two, Colossians two, so on and so forth. So if you. If you are tripped up by a phrase in a verse and then you explore the entire scope of. Of a testament or the Bible around that idea, you always let the massive Data in exegesis guide your summary views rather than one isolated text that's hard to understand.
Dena Davidson [00:26:38]:
Yeah, got you. Verses just don't exist. After 2000 years of the most brilliant minds examining this text and asking God, what do you want us to know? So if you are consuming any person who is saying gotcha, like, gotcha Christianity, the thing that you say that the Bible teaches, it actually doesn't teach that question, that voice, because, I mean, honestly, do you think after 2,000 years of the most brilliant minds devouring God's word and giving their lives to studying it and examining who God is, that there's not some brilliant thinker out there who has a great explanation for whatever phrase out of context you're tripped up over? Just cautionary tale, don't, don't get taken in.
Curt Harlow [00:27:22]:
And that's why we have the Bible study, right?
Wesley Towne [00:27:23]:
That's right.
Curt Harlow [00:27:24]:
Okay, so now we got to get to two last concepts. So I really do believe the thrust of 15 is as Paul is praying over them. He's preaching to them. He's preaching.
Wesley Towne [00:27:36]:
I love that phrase. I've never heard that.
Curt Harlow [00:27:37]:
He really is. There's good preaching and there's bad preaching, but sincerely good preaching here. And he's preaching exactly what you said, that they may have knowledge of the Father, that the grace of the Father may lead them into relationship with the. The Father. And then he says two things about that, that revelation that will happen to you as you know the Father, you'll grow in hope and you'll realize that the work inside of you is being done by the Father with the same power as the Resurrection. So let's talk a little bit to those who are hopeless for a moment out here. I think sometimes. To the hopeless.
Curt Harlow [00:28:15]:
You said it earlier, Wes, you said. Or maybe you said it, Dena. To the hopeless, we say, here's a prescription. Do this, this, and this. Do these three things. You know, go take a walk out in the sunshine and reevaluate your direction in life. And gosh darn it, fuck up. And I have found when I am hopeless, those things make me even more hopeless.
Dena Davidson [00:28:41]:
Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:28:42]:
The only thing that gives me hope in the moments when I'm really down is when a great and loving friend comes and is with me. When someone calls me or texts me or shows up and goes, hey, I got you. I'm here with you. And I think it's exactly what Paul is preaching here. He's saying in the most difficult, challenging thing that is called a church in Ephesus, in this city that had the Most violent riot in the book of Acts. What I want you to do to keep hope is I want you to realize how much God rejoices over you and loves you and how much you can understand and have revelation about Him. Further, keep your eye on the relational aspect. And then you'll go, I'm not alone and I've got a future and I've got a Father in heaven who's got.
Curt Harlow [00:29:37]:
Is in control of all this chaos. And eventually he protects me from it all. That's how you get hope, through relationship with the Father, not a circumstantial subscription. And then why is it that he wants to pray resurrection power over them, you guys. So I can see why he wants to pray hope over them, because this is a very combative city. Why bring this resurrection? Why tell them the power source? What does that have to do anything? Is he just using flourishing language at the end of the prayer here or.
Dena Davidson [00:30:12]:
I mean, my mind just immediately goes to the intense persecution. But if there's more to it than.
Curt Harlow [00:30:18]:
That, I don't have an answer. Yeah, most of the time when I ask you a question, Dean, I do already have an answer. Yes, I'm just waiting, like, I let you two go and I'm like, here's the right one. But no, I really. It's like, it's a great crescendo, just. Just language wise. Right, but is there more to it theologically than that?
Wesley Towne [00:30:41]:
Yeah, I mean, I think the entirety of the Christian life cannot be lived without first, what you're saying, a relational encounter with the living God. And when you have a relational encounter with the living God and you are a recipient of his incredible grace, then the practical nature of, like, okay, how do I follow the way of Jesus? How do I live out his commands? How do I do do the things that he is teaching me to do? In scripture, the only way that you can do that is through the power of God. And he goes on a whole diatribe explaining God's power in various ways. Here he talks about God's power in the resurrection of Jesus, God's power over all, all, you know, spiritual beings. God's power over the church. How he's the head of the church. He's. He's just basically illustrating the power of God in three different ways, saying, this is yours, like the power of God is yours to live out the Christian life.
Wesley Towne [00:31:43]:
And there's something beautiful, like when you see the power of God in your life, doing things that you couldn't do, that deepens your knowledge of God.
Curt Harlow [00:31:54]:
He's trying to magnify their understanding of how powerful the power of God is.
Wesley Towne [00:31:59]:
Yeah.
Curt Harlow [00:31:59]:
Yeah. So I. I honestly, you know, did not have this prepared, but I bought a jacket that has batteries in it to go fishing in January. And I got out there, and it.
Dena Davidson [00:32:10]:
Was like, sounds so dangerous.
Curt Harlow [00:32:18]:
And I got out there and it was like 15 below with windshield. I was like, no problem. I got this big, thick fleece that's got batteries in it. It has these big heating pads in the back. And. And these batteries did not do it. They didn't like. I think it was like, two degrees more.
Curt Harlow [00:32:36]:
They were. I was underpowered and risk of electrical shock.
Wesley Towne [00:32:39]:
Underpowered.
Curt Harlow [00:32:40]:
He's trying to get them to say, no matter what the forces are in ephesus, no matter what the forces are in your culture, no matter what the forces are in your. Your own challenges and temptations, addictions, this power is far beyond enough. Yep, that's good.
Dena Davidson [00:32:57]:
That's very good. I love that.
Curt Harlow [00:33:00]:
All right, let's get to the application because clock is telling us that statistically, people are switching over to Joe Rogan. Stay here with the Bible.
Dena Davidson [00:33:08]:
I love that they started with us, though.
Curt Harlow [00:33:09]:
Okay, good. Yeah, apply that when you're listening to Joe. Dena, what should we do about this?
Dena Davidson [00:33:16]:
I think we should ask God the question, what do you want me to know about you? So just, like, maybe we. We've grown distant or maybe just casual with someone in our life that we've known for a while, and there hasn't been any growth in a relationship. It feels stagnant. Many times I've reached that moment with God. Recently, I've been telling God, like, I'm reading your word, and these. These words are just bouncing off my brain like nothing is happening. I know they're supposed to transform me, but they're just not sticking. And so I've had this conversation with him, and I think it's okay to take whatever stagnancy we feel is happening in our relationship with God and talk to God about it.
Dena Davidson [00:34:01]:
We don't need to go get a book on a practice. We don't need to go do anything else except talk to the God of the universe and say, God, I'm having this problem knowing you. What do you want me to know about you? Which of your attributes do you want me to understand a little bit better? Is there. And this would be a very great question to ask, is there a false belief that I have about you? Just ask him that question. Because I think we assume that we don't. But odds Are. Since we're sinful, broken creatures, ignorant creatures, we got some false ideas about God, let's trade him in for the real ones.
Curt Harlow [00:34:42]:
Love it. Ask God, what may I believe about you that is not true? I love that. How would you apply this, Dr. Wes?
Wesley Towne [00:34:49]:
My encouragement would be to take the book of Ephesians, read it once a week with a pen and a paper, and write down every aspect of God mentioned in Ephesians that you're learning about him, and spend a month doing that four times. You go through this book, write everything you're learning about God and then don't stop there. Do what Dena said, every aspect that you learn about God, talk to him about it. Be in a personal encounter with him.
Curt Harlow [00:35:21]:
I love it. Okay, I'll do a modified version of that. Read the first three chapters five times.
Wesley Towne [00:35:26]:
That's great. Love that.
Curt Harlow [00:35:27]:
Before you get into chapter four, which is a call up to higher living, get the grace foundation set. Don't start with the landscaping, because if you put all the roses in and then when you do set that foundation, that excavator plow that's going to set the foundation is going to run over those roses. So start with grace. I would meditate on every aspect of God's goodness. And then I would literally pray what Paul is praying for the Ephesians. I pray that the eyes of your heart might be enlightened. So the eyes of our head is our brain. We can understand the definition of grace.
Curt Harlow [00:36:06]:
God's undeserved favor. But the eyes of our heart mean. Here's what I really believe. We believe in God's grace. We believe in God's love. We believe in God's commitment to everyone but us. We think, yeah, God's probably a good God. He probably loves Dena, and he probably really loves Wes.
Curt Harlow [00:36:27]:
And he forgives him all the time. And he knows he just loves them and he's proud of them. And when they get his grace, he laughs, but not me. And I would pray that the eyes of my heart might be enlightened to the fact that God is more committed to me than I ever will be to him, and that he cherishes when I get his grace. And he lavishes that grace on me in the hopes that the eyes of my heart will see it. And I'll have that. What you. So well put.
Curt Harlow [00:36:57]:
I'll have that personal encounter with this grace filled, lavish, glorious grace giving God.
Wesley Towne [00:37:05]:
Yes, yes, and amen. Yes.
Curt Harlow [00:37:09]:
All right. Hey, so, Bri, next week we're going to go into chapter two, and we got a guest we've never had on. At least in this iteration of the Bible study podcast. There's been two kind of iterations. And do you remember who that guest is? Pastor Ray Johnson, the legend himself. So you don't want to miss who knows? You know what Ray's going to say? Nope, I don't. But I guarantee you you'll be forwarding it to all your friends. Also, I want to just put a little shout out to one of our sponsors out there.
Curt Harlow [00:37:42]:
World Vision. World Vision. Their motto is make a life changing decision. When you actually participate in breaking the cycle of poverty, it truly does change lives and it changes them forever. We did the whole chosen World Vision thing at church last year where instead of kids stuck in the cycle of poverty being chosen by those of us that are more fortunate, we sent them our pictures and they chose us.
Wesley Towne [00:38:12]:
It was amazing.
Curt Harlow [00:38:13]:
We flipped the script on the choosing children in poverty thing. I tell you, in almost 40 years of pastoring, one of the most powerful things I've ever seen. Anyway, World Vision, go check them out online. They're incredible organization and we really appreciate their sponsorship here. Also, please, like subscribe forward and make comments, even if it's a joke about me and a nice thing about these two, please. We want to hear from you. God bless you and thank you for watching the Bible study podcast.