Dena Davidson [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Bible study pod. I am Dena Davidson. We are missing Pastor Curt Harlow, but he's getting some great, awesome fly fishing in. So we're super happy he gets to do that. And then I am joined by Amy Zielsdorf. Did I get that correct?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:00:14]:
You got it. Right.
Dena Davidson [00:00:15]:
Way to go on the back. This is your second time on. You were actually part of our inaugural episode, I think. Wow.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:00:21]:
Yeah. What an honor.
Dena Davidson [00:00:23]:
Yeah.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:00:23]:
Yeah, it was the first one back, I think.
Dena Davidson [00:00:25]:
Well, welcome. Welcome back. Thank you. We are in a series on the Psalms, and if you can believe it, Amy, it's actually our last week. This week and next week are our last two weeks in Psalms, which by no means have we done a thorough exposition of the Psalms. But our hope is every single episode, we've taken you through a category of psalms, and so this one that we're gonna cover, Psalm 35, is something called an imprecatory psalm, and it has a completely different flavor than the positive. Crying out to God, the Lord is my shepherd. Psalms that we have been diving into.
Dena Davidson [00:01:00]:
So without further ado, I will read some of the verse, and we'll start to unpack them.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:01:05]:
Let's do it.
Dena Davidson [00:01:06]:
So if you have your Bible, open it. Curt would always say, unless you are driving, and then don't do that. Be safe. So Psalm 35, verse 1. Contend, Lord, with those who contend with me. Fight against those who fight against me. Take up shield and armor. Arise and come to my aid.
Dena Davidson [00:01:26]:
Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me. Say to me, I am your salvation. So, Amy, let's just dive in. Start. Start talking to us about this tone switch, right? So, like, if you're falling in love with the psalms and you're. You're all about exalting God, you're all about saying, the Lord is my shepherd. God, I'm crying out to you, be there for me in hard times. And then you open up to Psalm 35.
Dena Davidson [00:01:51]:
What kind of tone shift do we have going on here?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:01:53]:
Yeah, it's part of what I love about David is that his highs are highs and his lows are low. But also, like, that's the human experience, right? That we're not always in a space in which we can so eas. Easily say the things of Psalm 23. But that this. This, like, Psalm in particular, while we don't know exactly when this was written in David's life, a lot of. A lot of scholars think that this was maybe when he was fleeing from Saul. But the idea of feeling like I am so stuck. The Lord, I need you to fight for me.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:02:17]:
I feel lost, I feel confused. And I love that David. I love the way that David talks to God. Because if you look again throughout all the psalms, he talks to him in so many different ways. But what I love even is that David is often as he's known for being a man after God's own heart. That there's still this like beautiful anchoring in the midd of wherever David's at when he's high, when he's low, when he's confused, when he's. When he's sure that he's always oriented towards God. And I love that about him.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:02:42]:
I think it makes him particularly relatable because we all know what it's like to feel like, Lord, I'm in a fight, that I need you to fight for me. I don't know what to do.
Dena Davidson [00:02:50]:
That's right. That's so good. So I wanna, I'm always like looking for the controversy and I think if we don't ground ourselves in some good theology, we maybe think there's a biblical contradiction here. Because I'm thinking about Jesus's words in the New Testament. You know, fast forward to the New Testament and you have Jes saying things like, love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, turn the other cheek. You know, if someone wrongs you, then go the extra mile with them. So I think first, first good piece of biblical advice is when you see what seems to be a biblical contradiction, the first thing that you should do is that you should zoom out and say, okay, I believe that God is the author of this whole book and I'm gonna give God the credit that he's really intell and he's not saying one thing here and then going and contradicting himself later. Yeah, the, the flaw must be in my understanding.
Dena Davidson [00:03:47]:
The tension is in my interpretation, not in these words. So how can I back up and say, okay, we've got this in the New Testament, this in the Old Testament? How can I bring these two together in a way that actually makes sense and honors God's omniscience and the fact that he knows everything and he knew that both of these things were going to end up and we were going to be reading them. So. So with that in mind, here's what I would say. Contend, Lord, with those who contend with me. What David is doing is he's bringing the problem into God's presence. He is not saying, okay, I am going to go out as David and I am going to handle this. You can actually read chapters in David's story where he does just that, and it goes really terribly wrong.
Dena Davidson [00:04:33]:
David's like, okay, great. I'm the anoint one. I'm going to go out. I'm going to solve this problem. I know what to do. It doesn't go well. I think David has learned I need God's help when I am facing a problem that I just don't know how to deal with. And so he's bringing it into God's presence, and he is saying he's crying out to God, contend, oh, Lord, with those who contend with me.
Dena Davidson [00:04:57]:
And I love that. I think that there's good theology in that. First, it's theology that recognizes that we live in a broken and fallen world. So if you were to meet someone who had never heard those phrases, what does it mean to live in a broken, fallen world? Amy, how would you explain that?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:05:15]:
Well, just like, I don't know. Have you ever looked around? I think. You know, what's funny is I find, especially with people who maybe don't have a lot of concept for God or for the church, you find that often the piece you have to convince them of the least is the brokenness of the world. Right? That's our lived experience. That's, you know, maybe they're confused about what they believe about God or the institution of the church.
Dena Davidson [00:05:33]:
But.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:05:34]:
But you don't have to convince them of the brokenness of the world because it's something we face every single day in our families, in our relationships, in our systems, in our government. I mean, wherever you look, brokenness is not hard to find. And so I. I love that, even for people. And maybe if you're new to the Bible even, I think Psalms is a great place to start, even in regards to understanding the brokenness of our world. And you see even these biblical giants, David included, wrestling with, how do I trust you, God, and trust you to be who you say you are? And like, you're saying those two things being true at the same. How do I trust that you are God and you are good, and yet I'm looking around and it doesn't look good.
Dena Davidson [00:06:11]:
Yeah.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:06:11]:
And so, I mean, to me, I think that I often think of that idea that when I think of brokenness, I'm like, man, it's sadness, it's pain, it's things not being as they ought to be. And so, you know, David, again, as he'll continue to go on, is saying, lord, I'm even trying to follow you. And I feel like people are coming to me without cause, fighting against me. This is not how it ought to be. Right.
Dena Davidson [00:06:34]:
You know what's funny though, is I completely agree with you when you talk to people outside of the church, I think they'll readily agree to the premise that this is a broken and fallen world. But I've had an odd experience and I fought this in myself, that sometimes those of us within the church, those of us that have grown up reading the Bible and understanding who God is, sometimes it's hard for us to acknowledge the brokenness in the world because we feel like we're creating a really bad theological situation, like God is in control and yet the world is very broke. How can we say both of those things? And it's our own uncomfortability, living in the tension between those two truths that drives us to often excuse, underplay, even gaslight ourselves about the brokenness that is really going on in our story.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:07:21]:
Yeah, that's so good. And I mean not to skip too far ahead, but there's even a phrase in there where David's saying how long, O Lord? And I can think about there's. And he says that in Psalm 13. He says that repeatedly throughout the psalms of this question of God. I know you're my salvation. I know you're my refuge. I know you're my strong, strong tower. And yet this is what's happening around me.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:07:41]:
And I think there's so much to be said for whilst maybe our circumstances are different than King David for us to recognize, there are so many times in life in which we wrestle with the tension of who God says he is and us truly believing that with all we are, and yet being in the midst of this broken world, wondering God, how long, how long, oh Lord, will this continue? How long until everything is set right. Knowing that we live in this beautiful in between of the already of what Jesus has done and then not yet of waiting for him to come back and set all things right. And it is incredibly difficult tension to live in. There's a lot of pointers to take from King David because I would like to say that it's something I do really well, but it's really difficult to do.
Dena Davidson [00:08:21]:
Yes. Okay, so you mentioned the already but the not yet tension. So for someone who's never heard those phrase, what does it mean that we're living in the already but the not yet?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:08:31]:
Yeah. So in the idea of God's kingdom that we know that Jesus came to establish God kingdom here on earth, meaning that with his life, death and resurrection, that we already now get to live in the kingdom of God. And yet we also know that Jesus said he was coming back again to set all things right. And so we live in the reality of knowing that even as I love that David said, say to me, I am your salvation, that he's asking God in the midst of being so unsure about where life is around him, that he's like, lord, I need you to remind me that you are my salvation. And in the Old Testament, a lot of times I. This idea of salvation was more of a material one of like, actually save my life. I need you to do that, though. We know obviously that with the coming of Jesus that it's also a spiritual salvation in which you would save me for eternity.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:09:15]:
And so we live in this in between that we have been saved for eternity, and yet we are still in the midst of our physical life knowing that we have hope of heaven one day and that we do have hope here on this earth, but our hope is ultimately put in heaven as we wait for Jesus to come back and set all things right.
Dena Davidson [00:09:30]:
That's so good. It makes me think of a passage in Second Peter that I think really falls along with when you mentioned that he said, like, how long, oh Lord? The, the New Testament Christians were asking the same exact question. They were crying out under the circumstance of being martyred for the faith, and they were. They were living under this promise from Jesus that he would return. And they thought it was going to.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:09:54]:
Be immediate pretty quick.
Dena Davidson [00:09:55]:
Yeah, I think they would be absolutely stunned to find out that he wouldn't come back to this conversation.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:10:00]:
They're like, he's still hasn't come back yet.
Dena Davidson [00:10:02]:
How long, oh Lord? This is the exact context. And so they're like, I don't know, they're like 30 plus years from Jesus ascending from heaven, and they're, they're crying out to God and saying, God, why won't you come back? Why won't. Haven't enough people been martyred? Haven't enough people, you know, been saved? And it answers that question so clearly. It says in Peter Second Peter, the Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness, but he is patient with you, not willing for anyone to perish, but all to come to salvation. And so the clear answer of, you know, we're in the here, but the not yet. Well, why is it not yet? Well, in Peter, God. God says it's because not all have been saved yet. And God's grace and mercy will continue to flow out until Judgment Day.
Dena Davidson [00:10:55]:
And Judgment Day comes When the last person who will have yielded to Jesus has. And he won't bring about that yet until that moment.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:11:04]:
That's so good to think about that, too. Because even in David's, you know, even in his confusion of saying, how long, oh, Lord, and even the times in which we see that show up in Scripture, I think it's really easy, just like David, for us to start to get a really negative view even of who God is in our suffering, Right? That when we're like. I think sometimes we think, are you just sitting there passively watching this happen to me, just arms crossed, like, you know, you could intervene, but you're not. But I love. I love for us to go to places like 2 Peter, to be like. Also maybe is there God's grace in not intervening yet that sometimes we can think of him as passive and maybe calloused and aloof to our suffering. And yet actually there's something beautiful that he's doing, even in allowing it to continue, that helps me even in my own. My own heart, my own story, for sure.
Dena Davidson [00:11:48]:
Absolutely. And the whole reason that Psalm 35 and other Psalms like it, that deal more in the broken and hard spaces of life, the whole reason that I believe they're in the Bible, is to help us know, like you were saying, how to talk to God in hard times. And if we are unwilling, like David, to face up to the truth of the brokenness of the right here and the right now, then we're going to end up feeling like God is mad at us. We're going to end up with so much stuffed disappointment in God that our relationship with God, it may not break, but it will certainly create gaps of trust. So the reason that this psalm is here is to help us fill in these gaps with conversation. Anything to keep the conversation going. Like I think a great marriage counselor would always say. Are you still talking about this?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:12:44]:
Do you still have something to fight about?
Dena Davidson [00:12:45]:
Do you still have something to fight about? Because if so, there's hope in that relationship. Because that means that there's not disdain and despair. There's still hope. So that's what David is doing. He is having a hard conversation with God. So going back to it, it says, fight against those who fight against me. Take up shield and armor, arise and come to my aid. Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me.
Dena Davidson [00:13:10]:
Say to me, I am your salvation. I love here the hope and the trust that David puts in God. He is basically saying, I am facing an enemy that is coming against me, and I am not trusting in myself for salvation. But instead I am looking to you. Yeah.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:13:28]:
And honestly, I think we often resent those situations in which we find ourselves feeling surrounded on every front. But I find that even. Even sometimes when we talk about spiritual maturity, I think we can sometimes kind of make it this conceptual thing that we don't know exactly what it looks like. But I would argue a form of spiritual maturity would also be the quicker we can get to that point of saying, I cannot rely on myself here, but, Lord, I need you to remind me that you are my salvation. Hopefully it wouldn't take feeling surrounded by enemies to get there. But again, that's what I love about David, is that while it can seem like he's all over the place, that's the anchoring that he's like, lord, I feel so confused and disoriented and overwhelmed. But also I'm so aware of the fact that I cannot rely on myself, that I need you. And I love even this idea of this, like, remind me and say to me.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:14:18]:
Even in Psalm 62, he does that, where he's talking about the Lord being his refuge and his hope. But then as he gets further in the psalm, he says, yes, my soul wait in silence for the Lord. He's instructing his soul to live into that truth. And there's this great Spurgeon quote where it says, there is nothing that can make you strong to labor for God, bold to fight against your enemies, and mighty to resist your temptations, like full assurance that God is your God and your sure salvation. And so I love that when he gets disoriented, when he feels at a loss, that's where he goes. It wasn't that he didn't have doubts, but he knew what to do with them. And I'm so. I.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:14:55]:
I have a lot to learn from David in that regard.
Dena Davidson [00:14:57]:
Amen. One of the things that I love about this psalm is how specific it is, like the character of the enemies, because David had a. He faced a lot of different types.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:15:07]:
Of enemies, a lot of haters.
Dena Davidson [00:15:08]:
A lot of haters, as the kids would say. And. But these particular enemies were from those that he expected to be his friends. They were from more the inner circle type of his court.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:15:20]:
I'm sure no one's ever experienced that in the real world.
Dena Davidson [00:15:23]:
Exactly. 100%. Certainly not from within the church.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:15:25]:
Yeah, of course.
Dena Davidson [00:15:27]:
So, picking up in verse 21, David talking about his enemies, it describes what they're like. He says, they sneer at me and say, aha, aha. With our own eyes. We have seen it. So he's basically calling them out and saying, there's all of these people, they should be on my side. But no, they're sneering at me. They think they've got me. They think they know what's ahead.
Dena Davidson [00:15:48]:
And then he turns in verse 22 and he says, lord, you have seen this. And he contrasts it there. It's beautiful poetry. With our own eyes, we have seen it. His accusers and his enemies say, but then again, David turns to the Lord and says, lord, you have seen this. Do not be silent. Do not be far from me, Lord, this is a man, I think, that has experienced what it is like to taste the distance of God. You know, he's able to cry out in another part of the Psalms, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? He knows the felt as absence of God, and he is crying out and saying, don't, don't do that this time.
Dena Davidson [00:16:24]:
Right now, I need your fe. Your felt presence.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:16:27]:
Good.
Dena Davidson [00:16:27]:
He says, awake and rise to my defense. Contend for me, my God and Lord, anything that stands out in those verses to you.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:16:36]:
You know, it's funny, I'm a bit of a words girl. I don't know if you've noticed that about me, but I love that even as I was looking at the amount of times he uses the word Lord in this psalm, that this is where he then uses is Yahweh, which is like this covenant word for God that he's remembering. He's asking God ultimately to remember his covenant to him. Right, Lord, you've seen this. Do not be silent. Like, remember who you are to me. But he's also then again reminding his soul of who God is to him, that he's like. And I love that.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:17:08]:
That's such a good observation to say. What's worse, having enemies or having God far from you? And what he's saying is he's like, don't get me wrong. The enemies are bad. They're sneering at me. They're, they're. They're doing all the things. And yet it would be worse for me for you to be far from me, right? And what incredible perspective to have when you're in the midst of fighting a battle that you don't even feel like you should be fighting, right? You're like, you're saying, he's like, I thought these were friends. Turns out they're foes.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:17:32]:
I also don't even understand why they're coming against me. It says, he says multiple times without cause. He's like, once again, Lord, without cause, which we all think we have without cause, we're like, I don't even. Every time I, you know, I'm disciplining a fight with my kids, they're like, I didn't even do anything right. We often have that. But I truly think that David is saying, lord, I'm trying to follow you with everything I have. I now have enemies coming against me without cause. And it feels like you're just watching this happen.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:17:57]:
But again, for him to say, but even still, it would be worse for you to be far from me than to have enemies.
Dena Davidson [00:18:02]:
That's so good. That's amazing. I love my name. You know how you sometimes, like, do those name searches, like, what does my name mean? You know, and I'm gonna find out who I am in this key. And so I looked up my name and it means Vindic. And I was like. Which means to be proved right.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:18:18]:
Yes.
Dena Davidson [00:18:18]:
And I'm like, well, amen finally has to be proved right. But it's been hilarious for me because for someone whose name means vindication, I have so few chapters of my story where I've felt like David. So few chapters where I could relate to the aha, aha, These people are against me. So. But there have been moments. There have not been a lot of moments, but there have been. I'm holding on to the few moments, yes. Where you just feel the intense betrayal of knowing that you are right and yet you are being treated wrongly.
Dena Davidson [00:18:53]:
Like there, there might not be anything worse. And, and I know something that you and I both so deeply care about is the issue of just church hurt. And I think this is one of those moments where you're, you're doing something right. You're seeking God, you're loving God, you're pursuing God, you're showing up to God's places and with God's people, and then you get treated wrongly. That is one of the things that stings most. We've both grown up in the church, our dads are pastors, and so I don't know, speak to someone who feels like from those that they should have received nothing but good, they've actually received evil. How can we model ourselves after David here and cry out to God in that place of pain?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:19:39]:
Gosh, that's such a good question. I just, I want to hug everyone who's ever experienced church hurt, but unfortunately there would be too many people to hug. But I think that this is, the interesting tension is that while you can easily get a cynical view of just like, well, that's people. That's the brokenness of the world. There's a balance of wanting to still be hopeful about obviously what God's doing and what he's doing in the church and specifically in individuals, as he transforms us more into the glory of His Son. But I think at the same time there is a reality that we have to live in. But what I think is interesting is that, you know, what I love about again, David, is that two things can be true. We can find God in our refuge in the midst of things being broken.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:20:25]:
It doesn't mean we won't get hit. And it's not to say that that hit doesn't feel painful, and it's not to say that it doesn't feel incredibly painful when it comes from places or institutions or people that we expected to be safe. But I also think there is a God's grace in that, to remind us that. That those things at some point will fail you. When you talk about me as your refuge, I will not.
Dena Davidson [00:20:47]:
That's right.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:20:47]:
And I think that contrast is important for us to understand. But also the reality of life is incredibly painful when we're hurt by those places and those people. And so, I mean, I would say while I'm sad for those who it's happened to, which is most everybody, there's an opportunity there to know God as your refuge in a deeper way. And there's an invitation from God to say, I will not fail you in the way that those places or those people have. And can you take those. Those hurts just as David does to me, trusting that I am your salvation and that I am. That I am near to you, and that that's really what you need. You don't even need more.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:21:24]:
So it's not that you don't need these more so than you need safe places and safe people. You need a safe God. And so it doesn't mean that we can't pursue those things in this life. But more than anything, what our soul needs is a God who is near to us and a God who is truly our salvation in every way.
Dena Davidson [00:21:39]:
Yes. And can you imagine David like this would be so 21st century church hurt, dealt with in a toxic way to say, like, well, they're God's people, right? Like, I guess what they're doing must be okay because God is sovereign, he's in control. And therefore he would have stopped them from doing it. That's not at all the pathway that David takes. He doesn't forget a moment, lose sight of the fact that he is being Wronged and that wrong things are happening. He's been. He's being treated in a way that he knows his God would not approve of. And he takes it up with God.
Dena Davidson [00:22:13]:
He doesn't go out and deal with it injustice himself. He takes it up with God. He names the wrongs that are being done, and he looks to God for vindication. And he says, vindicate me and your righteousness. Like he appeals to God's character. And he says, you are a God of good. You are a God of righteousness. This injustice that is being done to me does not match your character.
Dena Davidson [00:22:37]:
So show yourself to be who you are, God, vindicate me. Show that I am right. And that's. To me, that's something huge to hold on to. I am. I'm going to pray for those that hurt people in the church. I'm going to pray for those that are hurt and those that hurt. But mostly I'm going to appeal to God and say, hey, this is your church, this is your bride, and I look to you to.
Dena Davidson [00:23:01]:
To deal with the problems that are being. That are happening. And I think that's important for us to grab hold of. This is why, again, this is why God printed these psalms, is because he needs us to have language for the injustices that we receive sometimes from those that are within God's people. Yeah, vindicate me is the cry that we can have when we're experiencing church hurt, or just in general hurt from people that we thought that we could trust. Vindicate me in your righteousness, Lord my God, do not let them think, aha, just what we wanted, or say, we have swallowed him up. And then I know you love the very last verse because it ends. It ends with a note of praise.
Dena Davidson [00:23:43]:
So bring it. Bring us home, Amy. And then we'll talk about some application, what we can actually do with this. How does David end this psalm, this imprecatory God?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:23:52]:
Judge those, curse my enemies.
Dena Davidson [00:23:54]:
Yeah, curse. To judge was my nephew. But curse, yes, is the more biblically accurate word.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:23:59]:
I think that's what's funny is we look at, you know, there's a lot of this where we're like, yes, David, yes, I resonate with that. Yes. And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh, you lose me a little bit. Because one I. So we love vindicating ourselves, right? Like a moment to tell someone, I told you so. I mean, oh, my goodness, we revel in that. Right? But what I love is that David is able to get to the point of saying, lord, be the one to vindicate me because of how he finishes at the end, because he's able to say that above all else, my tongue will proclaim your righteousness, your praises all day long. And even earlier talks about the magnification of God.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:24:34]:
There's. That is his end goal. While he wants to be vindicated, still his end goal is that God would be glorified. And a lot of times I get stuck at that primary goal of I would just like to be vindicated. That's really what I want here. But for him, he's able to. To pray that because that's what. That's what's showing that, again, his righteousness.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:24:52]:
His. His. His aim is towards God's will. It's not just that I want to be vindicated for vindication's sake, but, Lord, I want to be vindicated because I'm doing what you're asking me to do, so keep my heart aligned with what you want me to do. And at the end of the day, regardless of what happens, all day long, my tongue will proclaim your righteousness. And I think a lot of times when we think we are being righteous, we're stuck on the vindication piece of like, okay, Lord, I'm gonna pray that you curse my enemies. I'm gonna pray for this. But we still don't have that primary goal as God's glory and God's magnification.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:25:24]:
And in that case, we've still missed it. We've gotten close and yet still fully missed it. And that's where. I love that he wraps all of that up by saying that. Because if we miss that, we've missed the whole thing.
Dena Davidson [00:25:34]:
That's so good. All right, Application. We always love to just first ask the question, what would David have understood these words to be? What would the original hearers have understood these words, Words to be? But then taking a turn to us, like, how can we take Psalm 35 and live it out today? What does this psalm hold for us? What's your application?
Amy Zielsdorf [00:25:56]:
That's a great question. Again, I think there's, you know, some of the things I talked about, but I think there's so much to be said that when we read something like this, and maybe it stirs up some hurt within us that we're like, oh, I resonate with David's frustration or his hurt, I also think, again, where is David's heart posture? So when you think about application for your own life, if this is something that resonates and you're feeling like, lord, where are you? How long will you Watch this. What an invitation to take some inventory of your soul, to say, do I want to be vindicated just for vindication's sake? Is this just to be proved right? Is this just to, like, prove that I shouldn't have had to endure this? Or, Lord, what is the secondary invitation for me there to say, God, has my heart posture gotten off of wanting to magnify you first and foremost? Has my heart posture gotten away from actually, you know, can I actually say that this was without cause? Or, Lord, is there something here for me to say? No, actually, maybe there was cause here, or even if there wasn't, who have I seen God to be in the midst of it? And so I would say one of the beautiful things about the Psalms is that as we get a look into someone else's heart in the midst of different seasons, it's such a reminder for us to look into our own and say, ultimately, who do I see God to be in the midst of these times in my life? And ultimately, what is my aim? And has my aim gotten off where it should be?
Dena Davidson [00:27:11]:
That's really good. That's helpful. Maybe listen to Amy's advice second and then do mine first. But you'll definitely want to end with Amy because that's. That's where I'm so excited for what.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:27:23]:
You'Re about to say.
Dena Davidson [00:27:23]:
Okay. So I'm just going to invite people to get really honest and messy. I. I think we just take shortcuts a lot in the church. And so my application is going to be to take a piece of paper, a blank piece of paper and a pen, and I want you to write an imprecatory complaint.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:27:42]:
Oh, there we go.
Dena Davidson [00:27:43]:
Against someone in your life. And I just. This is, you know, this is draft. This is not the nice version. Your words are not going to be presented.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:27:50]:
You're not sending this, David.
Dena Davidson [00:27:52]:
You're not sending this. No one is going to see this. But. But you and the Holy Spirit, so. And every member of the Trinity, just for theological clarity. So you're gonna take your blank piece of paper, you're gonna put the name of the person that you have a complaint against at the top, and you are literally just gonna, line by line, you're gonna.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:28:09]:
A Psalm of Dena, a psalm of.
Dena Davidson [00:28:11]:
Dena against so and so to be forwarded at a later time, and you're gonna write line by line, your complaint. And I like, for some people, this is going to unlock, like, physical nausea. This is going to unlock anxiety. Just literally putting on a piece of paper in a clear way, the complaint that you have against someone. But I think this is so powerful, it's modeled for us. But the purpose of doing this is that you cannot forgive what you will not acknowledge, and you're very likely continuing the sin done to you unless you're willing to give. Confess. Confess it as wrong.
Dena Davidson [00:28:50]:
You have to confess it as sin. So we, like, this is just the human way. We wrong people in the way that we've been wrong. Hurt people, Hurt people. And that this is a huge reason imprecatory psalms exist is so that we can get the hurt out of us and not be in a cycle of it. So take your blank piece of paper, put the name of the person that you're complaining against at the top, and just write down, line by line, the case that you have against against them.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:29:17]:
The one you've rehearsed with many of your friends and on the phone, you.
Dena Davidson [00:29:21]:
Have had it in your head, my.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:29:22]:
Friends, locked and loaded with this.
Dena Davidson [00:29:24]:
Yes, you. You have it, but you've never put it on paper, and it's always existed inside of you. I'm gonna challenge you. Stop having it inside of you. Get it out on paper. Because once you get it out on paper, then you can do what Amy said.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:29:37]:
They go in tandem. I think that's really do. You'll see what's in your heart when you write that down. It will become very clear where your aim is. And if it's just about the cursing of the enemies and not that second part about magnifying God, it'll become very clear.
Dena Davidson [00:29:50]:
It will become very clear. That exact thing happened to me, Amy, this week. I felt like there was someone who had wronged me and I had a complaint against them. And so the first time in your life, right. One of the very few times in my life, I'm so blessed. But I did this with the Lord. And wouldn't you know that I got to the end of it, and, boy, when I started, I was like, level 10. I was right.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:30:12]:
And.
Dena Davidson [00:30:13]:
And then by the time I got to the end of it, I was like, wow, I'm actually quite wrong. Like, it was. It was. It was that quick of a process where God was like, oh, yeah, you have a case against this person. I also, Dena, have a case against you.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:30:26]:
Wow.
Dena Davidson [00:30:27]:
And so I think we never get to that other. And by the way, you might be a much better person than Dena. Like, you might have no case. Like, again, you might actually just be like David, someone that needs to be vindicated. But I find we don't get to that second half of the conversation where he's able to turn our hearts to a better posture because we're unwilling to bravely have the first conversation. We just try to swallow it and be better. But instead what happens is we ruminate on on it in our brain. So take a page out of the Bible and create your own page and write your own imprecatory psalm.
Dena Davidson [00:30:59]:
That's my challenge.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:31:00]:
That's a great challenge. I'm gonna do that actually.
Dena Davidson [00:31:02]:
I love it very I I so pray my name.
Amy Zielsdorf [00:31:06]:
We'll see how the rest of this goes.
Dena Davidson [00:31:08]:
Can't see if we get any emails or anything, so. All right, friend. Psalms. This series in the Psalms is gonna wrap up next week with a really important psalm. It is a Psalm of Lament. And so if this psalm challenged your theology and challenged your personal practice, next week will as well. And, and this category of psalms, Psalms of Lament, it's actually the greatest category. The most amount of psalms are written in this category.
Dena Davidson [00:31:34]:
So you do not wan miss what we are going to cover next week in the Bible study Pod. We can't wait to have you listen in always for you. And we're praying that God's word continues to get into you because we know that we all get better when we get God's word inside of us.